captainjackrules
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Bad WolfWhat is the answer, to bad wolf? Me and my friend have a on-going battle over this. She thinks it's always the T.A.R.D.I.S having posesed Rose, like in the 3rd episode with the parlourmaid and the gelth. I think it's just a name and Rose DOES create herself with the help of the time vortex. What does everyone else think?
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Zhord
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I think Bad Wolf is a message that Rose sent to herself when she was under the TARDIS's influence, sending it out to all parts of time. She explained earlier that while she was in the chip shop, some 200,000 years in the future, the Doctor was fighting against the Daleks. She sent the messages to herself when we saw Bad Wolf letters scatter from the Bad Wolf logo. As she sent the message then, it reaches her in the previous episodes at that point, but because there is no set time in the universe, the message appears to her before she has acutally sent it, yet she has sent it.. if you know what I mean.
Its a kind of paradox.
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kat
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yeah, she said "i can see all of time, all that was, all that is, all that ever could be" so she can see her past and the doctors past, then she scattered the words thoughout time, into their pasts to "remind" (premind?) herself that she could get to the heart of the tardis, be it by remembering the controls from boom town, or by other means.... like a big pick up truck....
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Zhord
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It's like she sent herself the messages at that time in 200,100, to herself in the past and in the future. Its quite hard to put it down into words.
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kat
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(this is my theory and other, more experienced whovians may be able to correct me)
every point in time is accesible through the time vortex, this is why the tardis can travel through time and space, rose was exposed to this and was therefore able to access all points in time and space as well, thus she can do the clue leaving thing
"you're not meant to do that..."
"...neither am i, but never mind now i've got new teeth" 
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joel
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confusedok, so, i still have a problem with this ending, some one please help me? i am going mad....
why does she say "i am the bad wolf"?
bad wolf is the logo on floor 500 of satelite 5. she uses that logo to scatter a message across time. right! that is the original bad wolf, all the other bad wolf clues are part of the msg. right?
so why does that make her the bad wolf!
also it is obvious that the daleks, or the god of the daleks, named the station bad wolf corporation. unless we humans named it before the daleks took it over.
is there any explanation for this? or is the story going to continue in season 2.
will this all tie in with the masters return....
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sciscens
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I don't think that every single word has a deeper meaning. It's not that complicated. If it was, the series could only appeal to mastermind geniusses. When Rose says "I am the Bad Wolf", that is just because that Doctor and Rose, just like the viewers may have thought of Bad Wolf as a person or object.
I'm just a little curious why anyone would choose such a weird name for their company. And frankly I don't think that's going to be explained in the rest of the series. If there's another higher level of conscienceness and entities within that, it would take a lot of explaining and that would go a the cost of the drama. Remember it's still a tv-show. So drama is essential.
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captainjackrules
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Bad Wolf It's just an earth-nursery rhyme, i guess. It's definetly not that complicated though, as people make out with "the TARDIS possesing her"
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Der Martin
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Hey Joel here's my idea:
Rose says "I am the bad wolf" ok? Well this particular statement is a little unfortunate. What she actually meant to say was ..."hey doctor, the whole bad wolf thing is down to me and what I am about to do in the next few seconds........I take the words and scatter them etc." As rose and the doc were so close then At that moment rose knew that she didnt have to explain it any further. Little did she know she would be confusing fandom which havent quite got around the Paradox thing yet. The bad wolf is not a character, it is a message sent by rose to herself.
The thing about paradoxes is, that although they seem terribly complicated, they dont really have to be and are usually not, especially in doctor who, otherwise as someone said before, the show would only be fathomed by extraordinarily paranoid geniuses. errrrrrrrr just a thought maybe we all are .arrggggghhhhhh oops sorry I said that, hope I havent offended anyone
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joel
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not sure about that. i appreciate what your trying to say. i think my point is that writers try so hard to not do this, its almost the worst thing a writer can do. because it creates a writing paradox. they sold bad wolf as a person, all the websites and clues and even RTD in his own words, have leaed us to believe that bad wolf is a person. so why then would they write it so that rose says "i am the bad wolf" she could have just said " i create the bad wolf, i scatter the words" etc then it would seem as if we had been tricked. we all thought bad wolf would be a person but actually its just a message. that would work.
the way they did it i seems that they are trying to sell rose as being the bad wolf. it makes no sense, but i guess maybe you are right and the other guys nigel, and marks.
but it obvoiusly doesnt just have to be simple, because what they did was far from simple. i mean everyone i talk to is confused about this, even kids, who think oh sooo simply and are the target audience for the series.
also i kind of wish people would stop saying things like, its over bad wolf is just a message that roses scatters across time, so that means there is no bad wolf, (or rose is bad wolf) just like if bad wolf was your grafitti tag or something. idiots do you really think writers think like that....
(idiots) wasnt directed at anyone in particular by the way!
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JACKJACKJACK
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BAD WOLFIt's soo obvious thats its Rose. She said she was Bad Wolf so she is. She wasnt being possed - The tardis/time vortex was in her head but she was talking as herself, Rose, not the tardis/time vortex.
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captainjackrules
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Definetly YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE TARDIS DOES NOT POSSESS HER. SHE IS CAUGHT UP IN THE TIME VORTEX! SHE SAYS ITS HERSELF, FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!! 
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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stop trying to simplify it, rose isn't bad wolf. bad wolf is a message that rose scatters across time. she says she is the bad wolf but as far as i can see this is just misleading writing. anyways nobody has yet answered my question about why the tardis was so bias. the tardis doesn't and has never before done something quite so conscious and bias, the tardis is alive and there has never really been a dr who episode where we learn to what extent the tardis is alive.
and dont say the tardis didn't do anything it was all rose!!!! rose even with a time vortex in the head doesn't know how to activate the tardis, and as you can see the second the time vortex enters her head the doors of the tardis close and it demateralizes. meaning she didn't even have to flick a switch to activate the tardis. i think this shows when she looks into the heart of the tardis, the tardis makes a conscious desicion to give her the power. and then it takes her to the doctor so she can kill the daleks and save the doctor. also the tardis would be the only thing that could have know rose needed to send that message, it makes sense that the tardis has knowledge of everything that haqppens in its past present and future.
the nestine consciousness calls the tardis bad wolf, and the kid graffitti's bad wolf on the tardis.
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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also why is eveyone voting yes, it's obviously not a good explanation.
they story ain't over yet!!!!!
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Zhord
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| joel wrote: | | rose isn't bad wolf. bad wolf is a message that rose scatters across time. she says she is the bad wolf. |
She is not Bad Wolf yet in the same sentence you say that she says she is. Looks to me like you just contradicted yourself there.
If she says she is Bad Wolf then.... I would think... SHE IS BAD WOLF! She sent the Bad Wolf messages to herself to tell herself in different times that all the events lead up to the Bad Wolf TV station so that she could go back there and help the Doctor.
And why is the TARDIS bias? Maybe cos it knows the difference between good and evil.
 And we ticked yes on the poll as it is a good explanation as it beats yours any day!
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Zhord
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Further to the speculation about BADWOLF, one thing to remember is that for Rose/TARDIS to do this, the end had to happen before we even begin the series.
Much like how GOD had to know how the universe was going to end before he began to create it. In some ways you could see this as the future always precedes the past, therefore they must co-exist in the present moment, riding the quantium wave.
I find that part interesting.
As Gywenth saw BADWOLF in Rose's mind (TARDIS) and the creature controlling the AUTONS says BADWOLF when seeing the TARDIS, there is more to this story arc.
Rose/ TARDIS left all those GRAFFITI messages, fully knowing where she would end up at particular times. HOW?
The TARDIS, knowing all time and dimensions, is GODLIKE. Can see the past, future which becomes the present moment. A present moment being the past and future combined.
Plus after the Mayor of Cardiff choosing the name BADWOLF, well planted by Rose/TARDIS?
In short, the TARDIS knows everything!
It is the ALPHA and the OMEGA.
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Zhord
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BAD WOLF EXPLAINEDHere's a simplar version:
Rose sees the words Bad Wolf so thinks that it is a message by someone for her to take the TARDIS back to the Doctor...the only way is through the TARDIS...when she does the TARDIS takes over her body, she steps out onto Satellite 5 see's the name Bad Wolf and sends the words back trough time to show up so Rose will then see the words Bad Wolf so she thinks that it is a message by someone for her to take the TARDIS back to the Doctor...the only way is through the TARDIS..when she does the TARDIS takes over her body, she steps out onto Satellite 5 see's the name Bad Wolf and sends the words back trough time to show up so Rose will then see the words ...and so on..Time loop..see... That's why Rose is the Bad Wolf
*Gasps for air*
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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| joel wrote: | | rose isn't bad wolf. bad wolf is a message that rose scatters across time. she says she is the bad wolf. |
ok so i left out the word "just"
| Zhord wrote: | | She is not Bad Wolf yet in the same sentence you say that she says she is. Looks to me like you just contradicted yourself there. |
was that not an obvious mistake.
| Zhord wrote: | | And why is the TARDIS bias? Maybe cos it knows the difference between good and evil. |
because in no other episode does it every make a conscious desicion to alter history and wipe out an entire race.
| Zhord wrote: | | And we ticked yes on the poll as it is a good explanation as it beats yours any day! |
come on lets not get nasty comic book guy. the reason is say it's not a good explanation is beacause it isn't.... i was reading somewhere recently that they have admitted that was misleading writting, and im sure if they could use their tardis and go back and change it, they would...
thusly bad explanation. great story arc... hope next time they don't drop the ball....
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Guest
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Okay, so we agree that Rose sent the words 'Bad Wolf' back through time to tell her to go forth and battle the daleks.
So, this could explain why Gwynedd (the mortuary assistant) could see the words when she used the Sight on Rose.
It could also explain why the words were written over the council estate in London to prompt her to go back.
But already questions arise. First; who wrote 'Bad Wolf' everywhere? We see one kid do it, but why him and how was he compelled to do it?
Secondly, how would the words 'Bad Wolf' prompt Rose into action? I would have thought that 'Dalek God' would be more fitting as personal mneumonic.
Lastly, what about the 'Bad Wolfs' that Rose would not have direct control? Why would the bomb have it on its side? How did she get the radio handle of the chopper to be 'Bad Wolf'?
Given that in the first episode she says that she was somewhat educationally challenged (apart from being a half decent gymnast) I would wonder why she would send the words back in Welsh and German hoping that others would see it and translate for her. Why have 'Bad Wolf' written in German on a falling bomb which she would perhaps miss seeing when she could have easily placed it in massive letters under a barrage balloon?
These need to be explained.
- Malc
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Deako
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| Anonymous wrote: | | But already questions arise. First; who wrote 'Bad Wolf' everywhere? We see one kid do it, but why him and how was he compelled to do it? |
Because the TARDIS is telephatic for one thing! I think Rose was as well when she had the time-vortex in her head!
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MalcolmSm1th
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Indeed, being telepathic is one thing. But compelling others to do something is another.
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MalcolmSm1th
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For some reason I was given the handle 'Guest'; above. Anyway, I find this Bad Wolf explanation weak and full of holes and I do expect it to make a lot more sense later on.
But, as far as I am concerned this is only the start of the explanation.
- Malc
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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why did this poll get closed, i never got a chance to vote no, and it seems there are others who agree....
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Zhord
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The polls close after 7 days via a default setting. Sorry!
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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can you run this poll again, i wouldn't mind a chance to see if people have changed their minds, and if the n00b's have an opinion
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kat
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i think the actual words "bad wolf" are irrelevant, other than the fact that the tv station is called bad wolf, had the station been called "potato salad" then these words would have been spread through time.
also i would like to point out that the words may be all over the whole of time and space, just because we only saw the ones rose and ce saw doen't necessarily mean that they are the only examples, there may be some other event in time which might prompt the guy at the end of the world to refer to it as "the classic bad wolf situation"
there's a lot to be said for subliminal messages
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sciscens
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| kat wrote: | | there may be some other event in time which might prompt the guy at the end of the world to refer to it as "the classic bad wolf situation" |
I think I may have just found out why the corporation running Sattelite 5 is called the Bad Wolf Corporation. Somewhere else on the forum (or was it still on plasticbag.org?) this "Bad Wolf Scenario" was explained as tricking your opponent into believing your lies and having them face you provided with false knowlegde so that they misjudge the situation and their own chances of survival. (That's how the Bad Wolf works in fairytales. The Bad Wolf is always a liar.) That is what Sattelite 5 has always done. When it was ruled by the Jagrafess and when it was controlled by the Daleks. So the name is quite logically chosen.
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kat
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ooo, hadn't thought of that
well done, have a sticker [/b]
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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does anybody think it would be good to see all the clues for series one listed in this thread? i know of 2 more than what is on the bad wolf site, and as someone said earlier there could be even more.
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Zhord
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I think alot of the threads have gone off topic now. Leave all casual talk to the members "happy hour" thread.
Back to Bad Wolf...
What would be your ideal verson of Bad Wolf?
Mine would be the Adam/Davros scenario, where the Doctor is the BAD WOLF leading Rose to her death but the TARDIS revives her.
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sciscens
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| Sutekh The Destroyer wrote: | | wow i really want to see the master return. i hate the way he dies in the tv movie.... |
You call that dieing? I would think of that as a way of dissapearance from which a talent as RTD could easily write him back in.
Don't worry about the master!
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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true you right but you can't enjoy the movie unless you think of it as the last dance between the master and the doctor..... anyways... your right they totally left it open for a return story..... to be honest i would love it if the doctor turned out to be the master...... wouldn't that be great if both CE & DT are actually the master in disguise, the we could go back to a new 9th doctor...... ohh fun and they could do a time war story to show us how it all happened, im sure McGann would do another TV Movie......
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kat
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any way they get mcgann back into it will be fine by me
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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i am gonna make a poll for this!
Back 2 Bad Wolf please...
ok celan up on this topic has happened.... not that i want to point any fingers but OMG deako... there is nobody that had more than 2/3 posts deleted... maybe you should be made mod for everything then you can go through and delete all your own posts.
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sciscens
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| Sutekh The Destroyer wrote: | | wouldn't that be great if both CE & DT are actually the master in disguise |
Seems impossible. The Master can't regenerate anymore. He can only go posses other entities' bodies. And the CE to DT regeneration sure did look like nothing else then a regeneration. No strings attached.
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Zhord
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How about this to bring The Master back...
During series 3, the TARDIS keeps straying off course to different destinations, with places which contains a "weak-spot" for a void between time and space.
However, the Doctor and Rose do not clock on that each time they land on one of these spots, the Master is controlling the TARDIS from within to use the void to turn into gas form (Much like the Gelth).
The Doctor and Rose thwart the Master's plan each time, without even knowing so until the final few episodes where the Master does actually turn into Gas form, using the rift in Cardiff.
This would then connect series 3 with series 1, as the rift was used on a couple of occasions.
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Sutekh The Destroyer
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thats a good theory.... i always liked the idea of using the gelph again aswell.
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maroony
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thanks you guys i now understand bad wolf!
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Allyourbasic Gerrardo
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yeah so do i! thx
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Der Martin
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Well just got back from my hols in czech Republic, highly recomendable. About bringing back the Master, well anything is possible. He was sucked into the Eye of harmony, which apart from having an almighty amount of power can do many outlandish things such as give Bjorn Fudge (Boomtown) a second chance at life. I'm sure it could also see its way clear to giving the Master a whole new regeneration cycle, if the Master manages to wangle it.
Any way welcome to the Forum Maroony, GDgirl, and All basic. Nice to meet you on a virtual level.
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kat
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he's been in there for so long, and the tardis does get into your mind, a full regeneration cycle would be easy
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