T.A.R.D.I.S. = God?

MetaHipster · T.A.R.D.I.S. = God?

So at the end of S27 we finally find out Bad Wolf was a message that Rose sent herself throughout all time & space via the fact that she was possessed to breaking point by the "Heart of the TARDIS".

Questions:

If the TARDIS is powerful enough to undo reality such that it can make an entire fleet, roughly "500,000" Daleks simply poof in a puff of smoke, why didn't the TARDIS end the Time War similarly?

Why did it pick "Bad Wolf" as the clue? The message seemed to have nothing to do with the meaning, and certainly wasn't the easiest way to get Rose/TARDIS back to the Dalek War to save the Dr.

Did the TARDIS really need a human host to pull off its history eraser trick to wipe out the daleks? Why rely on Rose to jimmy open the heart with a Rescue Truck?

Der Martin

My own theory is that the information and power that lie inside the Tardis is largely neutral and only Slightly biased in favour of the Doctor and his principles; which are ...1) safeguarding his own livelyhood (the Doctor´s) and 2) not interfering in the natural process of time, not necessarily in that order.
In order for priority one to take precedence over the policy of non interference an extraordinary event must take place such as having someone close to the doctor, who in this case turns out to be rose, looking into the heart of the Tardis and manipulating its power to his/or her own ends. The Master did manipulate the eye of harmony for his own purposes in the tv Movie, however if the Tardis is left to its own devices, then i should guess that it would not interfere, not even with the Time war. That´s my theory anyway.

Guest

Hello, first post in this new forum.

Firstly I don't think that the TARDIS can be referred to as God or as a God. Simply the TARDIS did not create, nor does it seek to claim that it creates, nor does it sustain or claim to sustain the universe. That said the power held at the heart of the heart of the TARDIS seems to be enormous.

Bad Wolf was a message sent through time by Rose at the time she is is connected to to the time vortex. Paradoxical as it may seem the message appears as a result of an experience in her later personal timeline. The power of the time vortex allows her to influence events in the past from that moment in the future. As a literary device the concept of the time vortex is useful though not without the need for self limitation to be applied. Changing of events has a detrimental effact as demonstrated in the episode Father's Day, where a change that was not meant to happen did. The Timelords did influence timelines to detrimental effects, Genesis of the Daleks etc. However, Rose was given a choice, the need to use force to access the heart of the TARDIS shows that it had to be a definite act on her part. Despite what the TARDIS may have wanted to happen, it was still subject to the Doctor who commanded it to take Rose to safety.

It is interesting that both the Doctor and Captain Jack both deem Rose as being worth saving. Is this above and beyond the others they have met because Rose is somehow special or has a special destiny to acheive. Perhaps Jack and the Doctor knew that she would save them?

Anyway this is all by way of speculation. The drama of the final episode was moving, the action enthralling and the outcome expected.

joel · TARDIS = GOD!!! NO! TARDIS = MASTER??? MAYBE?

the tardis does have a consciousness this is proved when the slitheen looks into the heart of the tardis and turns back into an egg, in order that it can have a 2nd chance. this is not what the does to the master, or rose. in rose's case as we know it transfers the power of the time vortex to her, and takes her to save doctor. in the masters case it consumes him.
in my opinion this shows that the tardis consciously helps rose and the doctor. The tardis doesn't act biasly it protects it's self plain and simple.
im a big fan of the idea that the master is surviving inside the tardis, inside the time vortex, all he would have needed to regenerate was the power of the tardis. i believe it is implied in ealier series that timelords can regenerate for a 13th time if they have a massive power source.
So the mater is controlling the tardis, helping the doctor destroy the daleks. after all they exterminated him. and what about those autons why did they come to earth. the doctor and the master sent them back to there homeworld, and only the master knew where their homeworld was. He brought them back, he brought them back to force rose and the doctor together, and the cybermen how do they fit into his plan? and k9 and sarah jane smith and captain jack? ohhhhhh i can't wait till christmas.......

joel

i think the tardis does need a human to do its destroy all daleks trick, and here's why. i was watching the made for tv movie last night and the tardis the 7th and 8th dr have, i think it's a type 40 or 400 tardis (not sure?) but anyway that thing is awsome it has a cloister room, an eye of harmony, furniture, and it can go anywhere, the best tardis there is! (i think?).
anyway my point is that everything in this tardis is human related, or at least that is how it appears. only someone part human can open the door to the cloister room, pull the reflectar staff from it's moring, and look in the thing... um i dont know what is called, but the thing you have to look into to open the eye.
so it makes sense that the new tardis's heart would like humans just like the other ones. and remember the doctor is still half human.
it's a recurring theme this, and i think i ties in with my theory about the tardis's behaviour. i still thinks it's wierd that the tardis was so bias in ep 13.
the master, the gelph, the autons, bring it all on we can handle it !
i know there is no point speculating on what comes next, but i tell you if i could of written a dr who episode for season 2, and brought back an old enemy it would have been the cybermen. good work RTD!

Zhord

I thought the Doctor's TARDIS has always been the same model and hasn't changed it.

You may be confused with the inside of the TARDIS is diffrent series, but I think the TARDIS is the same TARDIS that first appeared in the William Hartnel era.

The inside changes to accomodate the Doctor's needs so maybe your thinking that everytime you see the inside of the TARDIS as different settings, you think the Doc has traded it in for a newer model. But really, it is the same TARDIS.

Sutekh The Destroyer

no this tardis has a heart therefore doesn't have the clloister room, or the eye of harmony. now im on really thin ice here because i haven't seen anything else to lead me to believe that the dr has switched tardis's.

also in the tv movie i believe mcgann says it's a type 40 tardis and it's the most powerful tardis there is. also i believe before the time lords were wiped out there were many tardis's, and also like 4 timelords to a tardis.

Zhord

The Master had a TARDIS in previous series but his TARDIS, as any other, could change to blend into its background.

The Doc's TARDIS changed into a police box when he visted the 1940s but one of the circuits broke and it has stook as the police box ever since.

However, the Doc said that we would never change his TARDIS for the brand new one which came out (in previous series) and although it appears to be different from the one in the TV Movie with the Eye of Harmony etc, the Heart of the TARDIS is still the same thing.

RTD changed the Eye for the Heart as new comers would have to relate to the TV Movie before seeing the new series.

Sutekh The Destroyer

i dont quite understand what you mean.

i guess what i want to know is; why does the tardis in the tv movie have the clloister room and the eye of harmony? why is it refered to as being a superior tardis to all others? and is it the same for the 7th and 8th doctors? i mean does it just change back into a regular tardis without explanation for the 8th doctor episodes.

why do you say?
RTD changed the Eye for the Heart as new comers would have to relate to the TV Movie before seeing the new series.

what was it pre the tv movie the heart or they eye? i always thought it was the heart of the tardis. and what about for the 8th doctor does he travel in that tardis with the cloister room up until "the next life" which i think is the last 8th doctor episode...

addition: you may also note that the tv movie tardis, when it lands on earth is a police box, so it is the doctors tardis.

does anyone remember which story the doctor fixes the cloaking device on the tardis? because im sure he did, he just likes the police box! (yea right it's because it was cheaper)

Sutekh The Destroyer

Little did they know that his genetically transformed remains could still cause havoc in the heart of the TARDIS causing the TARDIS to make an emergency landing on earth so that the Master could once more snatch a body, open the Tardis' eye of harmony and attempt to steal the Doctor's remaining regenerations.

ok so the dr's tardis has an eye of harmony, and a cloister room, right? and the tardis really likes humans, right?

Der Martin · Cloister room, eze of harmony etc.

In the TV movie, the Master opens the Eye of harmony and declares that it IS the heart of the tardis structure from which the TARDIS obtains all its power. I should imagine that the now famous Time vortex is contained within the eye/heart.

I wouldnt make too much of the fact that the eye is found in the cloister room. If it is the heart and soul of the Tardis it could surely emanate through the whole of the Tardis and open a channel in the Control room without too much fuss.

The sixth doctor managed to fix the Tardis' cameleon circuit temporarily in the Attack of the Cybermen. The Tardid materialises in a knackers yard as an musical Organ.

Sutekh The Destroyer

oh yeah i remember that now that was a good episode.

so does the tardis still have a cloister room? and was there ever an explanation as to why the inside of the tardis changes?

just wondering. im not really making a big deal of it, i just think its interesting because the tv movie shows us that not only is the doctor half human, but also that only humans can operate the tardis. interesting? i wonder if they will go into this storyline, could get very complicated!

Sutekh The Destroyer

ok. so. in the time meddler (hartnell), the meddling monk (a time lord) gets marooned in 1066 by the doctor with a busted up mark 4 tardis.
does he return in any other dr episodes?
it says in the last part of the story that the monk has a mark 4 tardis, because he is 50 years in front of the dr. i guess that means he was born 50 years l8r.
im currently trying to hunt down more info on all the tardi's that appear in the dr who episodes.

so far i know of 4 different tardis's

the monks mark 4
the t.v movie tardis 7th dr mark 40 or 400
the masters mark ?
the 1st doctors mark ?

if anyone knows of anymore please let me know. also if you notice any references to mark #'s let me know.

Deako

I thought all TARDIS' were the same. Apart from the inside...

Sutekh The Destroyer

thats what i thought, but it doesn't seem soo.

4 different tardis's so far and i think they are all different types.

adman · Looks like we are either quoting what has been written b4.

Hi all,

I am amazed at the theories being banded about, et most of these are repeated from earlier posts on another site.

RTD is not gonna make it too difficult for us to work out, afterall, he doesn't want to lose his new audience.

So, to the post about the Master and how he drives the Doctor and Rose together, I refer you to this:

I like the way this turned out. The way time is essentially always there, happening now, as Rose said in the chip shop. There is no past or future in a way, it is all happening in the eternal present, right here right now.

Therefore, the messages happened once Rose linked with the Tardis, the Badwolf being the station and the TARDIS/ ROSE using the name to remind herself that she would succeed as long as she did not give up.

Even if it took her a week to do it, she could still return to that time and space dimension and save the doctor, leave all the messages via telepathy to all the characters they would meet through the Doctor's and Rose's journey.

In essence, the frightening thing is that the Tardis already foresees where the Doctor wants to go or occasionally decides to control where the Doctor is going. (Hence Cardiff instead of Nice (episode 3).

The TARDIS/ROSE already influences everyone who goes in or comes in close proximity to her.

Overall 10/10 for the entire series.... Oh, yes and Capt.... he did say.

A long shot, but given this new information I feel Captain Jack is the Doctor and the Doctor is the Master...and the whole thing what Rose did, was exactly planned by the Master (to wipe out the Daleks once and for all.)

When the regeneration happened, Capt Jack (spirit) became the Doctor again and the Master became Capt Jack, hence why being brough alive.

Roll on Christmas...

→ Posted by: adman at June 19, 2005 08:05 PM

i think this is the cliffhanger....

→ Posted by: adman at June 19, 2005 08:07 PM

ad xxx

Der Martin · Tardii

Tardises (Tardii maybe) are not all the same. Each is symbiotically linked to its owner. How and when the Tardis becomes linked to its pilot is not yet clear, although it would appear that the link is forged in the Eye of harmony at the heart of the Tardis, pretty darn close to the time vortex I fancy.

The most modern Tardis to date was the Ranis Tardis which the Doctors sixth incarnation becomes rather jealous of in Mark of the Rani. I shall have to watch it again to remember the particular component that the doctor wanted to get his hands on maybe someone else can post it here and remind me.

Sutekh The Destroyer

hey martin when you know more about that tardis can you let me know and i will add it to my post in Tardis History.

T.A.R.D.I.S. = God?

TARDIS = GOD!!! NO! TARDIS = MASTER??? MAYBE?

Cloister room, eze of harmony etc.

Looks like we are either quoting what has been written b4.

Tardii