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Zhord
Site Admin
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 641
Location: Didsbury, Manchester |
It was:
"Rose... you were fantastic... Absolutely fantastic! And you know what...? So was I..."
Its making me cry now 
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"Correctamundo! A word I have never said before and hopefully never will again" The Doctor in 'School Reunion'
Last edited by Zhord on Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:29 pm |
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kat
Time Lord
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 476
Location: Somewhere not here |
only seen 2 regens, 7-8 and 9-10 and they were both clever in their own ways
i loved the juxtapositioning (!) of the frankenstien movie with the 7-8 regen, thought it worked really well,
also, no-ones pointed this out yet, but the 9-10 regen was a lot like princess fiona's transformation at the end of Shrek 
( so, no squeaky DT then )
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"look, i'm busy resonating concrete"
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Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:31 pm |
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Deako
Time Lord
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1010
Location: Withernsea, England |
Now I think about it, it is. Good observation, kat.
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Three English teams in the CL Semi-Finals!
Liverpool to beat Chelsea then AC Milan just like in 05.
Why don't Arsenal play in the French League? |
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Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:00 pm |
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Sutekh The Destroyer
Time Lord
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Location: Pyramid Of Mars |
the tom baker regen is confusing. can anyone tell me if any of the other regenerations involve the watcher. i still don't understand the concept of the watcher being involved.
help der martin?????
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"These Shoes They Fit Perfectly!" 8th Dr Paul McGann - Anybody Want A Jelly Baby ? |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:47 am |
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Der Martin
UNIT Agent
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Still no JBs |
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Err no, the watcher has not (as yet) been reintroduced in the TV series although cunningly, it would appear, that RTD, (or someone else at the beeb) put his name on the credits of one of the new episodes, presumably to keep fans intrigued. I didn't see it on the credits but someone posted the rumour on the plastic bag.org website and said that on the repeat the next day on BBC 3 the name was taken out of the credit rolling.
The roll of the watcher is indeed a complicated one. It is never really clear where he comes from. That I suppose is part of the mystery that surrounds him. Some fans have been very critical of the writer for bringing in such a loose unexplained element in a regeneration story. Tom Baker himself has said that he was unhappy with this story and in particular with his farewell scene. Personally I think it was a brilliant idea and that it came off rather well mainly because it was shrouded in mystery.
What is clear in all of this is the Watchers' purpose.
1) He is there to warn the doctor of impending doom thus prepare him for the worst. In the story, a number of important things happen that the Doctor would possibly have been unprepared for had he not been forewarned e.g. (i) the doctor is forced to join forces with his mortal enemy the Master. (ii) the doctor must give up his life for the sake of the universe (iii) half the universe is destroyed (uncountable trillions of people dead is a bit hard to deal with psychologically)
2) given the catastrophical nature of the situation, he is there to watch over the doctor and if necessary help, distract or warn the doctor again of danger at any particular moment.
3) He is there to help the doctor regenerate. This time around the regeneration really is "a dodgy process". This is seen to be so up until well into Castrovalva (Peter davisons first ep). Won't post any spoilers but suffice as to say that the watcher doesn't actually appear in Castrovalva but without the watcher's help in Logopolis the doctor might not have done either.
The watcher has been reintroduced on paper (not sure about audio) but I can't for the life of me tell you where exactly. Here are a couple of quick theories as to his background. Only unconfirmed theories unfortunately.
1) the Watcher is a projection of his future self, a bit like cho-je was to kinpo in the planet of the spiders. Kinpo was the Doctor's spiritual guru and presumably some of his abilities would have rubbed off at some point in time.
2) the watcher is a projection of the doctor's sub conscious which someone (doctor, tardis, timelords, guardians, humanity itself who knows?) separates temporarily from the doctor so that he can be twice as effective in this demanding situation.
3) The watcher is a timelord spirit sent by Gallifrey in order to help the doctor regenerate and fulfill the above mentioned purposes.
4) The watcher is the Tardis trying to communicate with the doctor and update him on the state of affairs.
So thats about all that springs to mind regarding the Watcher. I thought that the regeneration was a wonderful death. The words "It's the end.....but the moment has been prepared for" are a definate tear jerker.
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The Master returns ...Wow!
Jack Was the face of Boe the whole time.... ... Wow! |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:36 am |
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Sutekh The Destroyer
Time Lord
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Location: Pyramid Of Mars |
thanks der martin, that helps a lot. i still can't find the episode but hopefully i'll get to see it soon.
im pretty sure the implecation of the watcher is that it is the future doctor, but my main problem with this is that it only ever happens in 1 of the regenerations. i guess this is the problem that all Dr Who fans have with the watcher. it makes sense that if the watcher enters the dead Dr's body and causes the regeneration, that it would happen everytime the doctor regenerates.
oh well the deeper we search the more inconsistancies we will find in the story.
it's deffinately not the best regeneration, for me it's still between the TV Movie re-gen, and the CE - DT re-gen. but i still haven't seen the 7th Dr's re-gen, and of course the 8th Dr's wasn't even in a tv episode. I wish they had made more of Paul McGann, what a waste.
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"These Shoes They Fit Perfectly!" 8th Dr Paul McGann - Anybody Want A Jelly Baby ? |
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:34 am |
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kat
Time Lord
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 476
Location: Somewhere not here |
stupid american copyright holders 
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"look, i'm busy resonating concrete"
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:15 pm |
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Der Martin
UNIT Agent
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Still no JBs |
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Errrrrrrrr. ....Quick Warning--------Logopolis Final episode Spoiler coming up.....Yes a Spoiler about that fantastic regeneration scene so If you haven't watched the episode yet quickly click on the Go back icon in your browser ............. NOW!
In Tbs final scene Adric says "Look .the watcher" and then teagan or Nyssa (can't remember which) clearly say "He was the Doctor all the time."
Just a titbit Another Spoiler follows..............So if that one was too much for you then you had better go back or close the window before you go hopelessly astray and accidentally read the next paragraph. Don't say I didn't warn you.
A particular characteristic of Tom Baker and peter Davisons regenerations is that they are the only regens to date to include spiffing flashbacks of hte previous and outgoing life. Thus the TB regen showed images of all the doctor's arch enemies all urging him to die. This is why I like it so much. The psychological pressure on the doctor to die is tremendous. They all shout "Die Doctor!" as the contents of his head turn to Jelly. It really does seeem as if all hope is lost and evil will dominate the universe in the doctors absence .Bam! Peter davison sits up.
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The Master returns ...Wow!
Jack Was the face of Boe the whole time.... ... Wow! |
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:00 am |
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Sutekh The Destroyer
Time Lord
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Location: Pyramid Of Mars |
yeah, it's kewl the way that happens. also what about troughton doesn't he go through all his enemies and companions with the timelords, at his trial. that one was pretty good too.
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"These Shoes They Fit Perfectly!" 8th Dr Paul McGann - Anybody Want A Jelly Baby ? |
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:21 am |
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Der Martin
UNIT Agent
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Still no JBs |
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Troughton's regeneration is a cracker as well. The regeneration is induced by the timelords and the moment of change is an argument with the Doctors people, who we have just really discovered as powerful race that they are. The argument is set in the context of the Doctor's trial, he has been accused of interfering with time and other peoples destiny. The timelords have just found him guilty and the Doctor is arguing over his sentence. No enemies of the doctor appear in this sequence unless you count his own people.
This is a very important moment because it is the first time that the Doctor's race has been named. Up until this point we knew that the Doctor is an alien traveller but we did not know that his people were a powerful civilisation called the timelords. I'm not sure we would have got to know the timelords at all were it not for the fact that the War games was a very long winded and complicated story which needed a very powerful and gripping ending to bring it all to a coherent closure. Although it was clear that PT was leaving I am not altogether sure that the end of the story had been written before the first three episodes had been broadcast. This is my personal view and is open to question, but Television was written very differently in those days and today the BBC would certainly deny such unprofessionalism.
One drawback that I find with this particular regeneration is that the new doctor's face does not appear at the end of it, instead we are forced to wait to catch a glimpse of Jon Pertee in his first episode screend Six months later. This is due to the fact that, at the time of recording Troughton's last episode it was not clear that Doctor Who would continue as a series (The BBC have always denied this) and it was certainly not clear who would play the next incarnation. Six months between series was an awfully long time in those days.
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The Master returns ...Wow!
Jack Was the face of Boe the whole time.... ... Wow! |
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:59 am |
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Sutekh The Destroyer
Time Lord
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 272
Location: Pyramid Of Mars |
yeah does anyone know if they just hadn't signed pertwee up for the 3rd doctor, or if it was just part of the story not to show his face?
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"These Shoes They Fit Perfectly!" 8th Dr Paul McGann - Anybody Want A Jelly Baby ? |
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:28 am |
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Der Martin
UNIT Agent
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Still no JBs |
They Hadn't signed him
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The Master returns ...Wow!
Jack Was the face of Boe the whole time.... ... Wow! |
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:49 pm |
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Zhord
Site Admin
Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 641
Location: Didsbury, Manchester |
What Der Martin means is that at the time, they couldn't show PT regenerate into JP because they had not have signed JP at the time of the regeneration.
That means the fans had to wait 6 months to find out who the third Doctor was.
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"Correctamundo! A word I have never said before and hopefully never will again" The Doctor in 'School Reunion'
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:52 pm |
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kat
Time Lord
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 476
Location: Somewhere not here |
not sure i'd have been able to handle that....
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"look, i'm busy resonating concrete"
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:42 am |
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